King John and Innocent
- Created by: Ashleigh Charlton
- Created on: 31-05-15 10:47
INTRODUCTION
- Despite notable periods of conflict- church-state relations genrally harmonious durning medievil period- as they needed eachother.
- Tensions raised due to Georgian reforms- popularity of sacremental principle
- Previously these tensions came to the fore when a new Archbishop was appoinred or their was a clash in personality.
Durning Johns reign:
Death of Hubert Walter 13th July 1205 - sparked the first major crown-church clash. Realtions with innocent untill this point had be relatively good which TURNER ATTRIBUTES TO THE SKILLS OF HUBERT WALTER.
Papal challenge:
- Fluctuated between 1207-1213
- Short term-interdict had little effect-John actually gained authoirty
- Longterm-John was brought to a heel by constant internal rebellion and external invasion-forced to hand over authority
Lost all theocratical authority but gained politically.
BACKGROUND/ PREVIOUS DISPUTES
- Crown-church clash fundementally arose from differing views of power balance.
- Theocratic/sacremtal explinations...
Previous problems:
Diverging theologies caused conflict between:
- William Rufis & Anselm
- Henry & Becket
- In the main about Crowns authority iver Clergy: Judicial authority/appealsto rome/appoitment of church offices/advowson/excommunication of lay lords without royal permission.
JOHNS OBJECTION
JOHN REFUESE LANGTON:
- Stranger to England- been living under the enemy Phillip
- Went against Johns traditional right to appoint.
LANGTON CONCECRATED 17TH JUNE 1207
- Innocent ignored the objections
- John refused to confirm his appoitment so Langton remained on the continent for 6 yrs
JOHN'S RESPONSE
- Expel monks of Canterbury,Seize lands in Canterbury,Bar papal judges from English Courts
INNOCENTS RESPONSE:
Bishop of London,Ely,Worchester told to threaten John with Inderdict
JOHNS RESPONSE:
Skilfully delayed the imposition by delaying negotiations with bishops 'saving royal rights & liberties'
INTERDICT- ADMIN CONSEQUENCES
Eventually took action: 23rd MARCH 1208
First serious imposition from the Papacy over England some negative effects:
- Suspension of ecclesiastical rites: Marriages/burials- JONES- 'The rhythm ordinary life was disrupted'
HOWEVER: even for ordinary people aspects of the interdict were mitigated- children could still be batisped.
John Himself: POSITIVE EFFECT!
- Not a genral flee of Bishops, only London,Ely,Hereford,Worchester.
- 5 elections held to fill vacant bishoprics durning interdict - Kings cadidate won 3.
INTERDICT- FINANCE CONCEQUENCES
Far from a challenge,actually strengthened it.
- Ordered a seizure of clerical property from those no longer providing a relgious service.He then allowed the lands to be redeemed in return for finacial gifts.
- Ordered Clergy's mistresses to be held for ransom unless a fine was paid- many quickly paid the fine.
seen as a highly advantageous result of his dispute with the Church given John’s need for money and was certainly no threat to his authority over the Church.
WARREN: 'JOHN WAS NOT DISMAYED,HE WAS MERLY RICHER'
INTERDICT SUMMARY
General feeling of support for John.
- Welsh Abbey said- many monks supported John
- Support from Barons as they too had been fighting the right to appoint church offices on their land-Advowson.Barons were so against the church John had to order that anyone who spoke or did eveil against the church would be hanged 'by the nearest oak tree'
TURNER: Much of the churches buissness continued as normal durning the interdict.
INTERDICT SUMMARY
General feeling of support for John.
- Welsh Abbey said- many monks supported John
- Support from Barons as they too had been fighting the right to appoint church offices on their land-Advowson.Barons were so against the church John had to order that anyone who spoke or did eveil against the church would be hanged 'by the nearest oak tree'
TURNER: Much of the churches buissness continued as normal durning the interdict.
CONSEQUENCES OF EXCOMMUNICATION- Initial
Failure of interdict led to innocent delcalring an excommunication of John NOVEMBER 1209
Treatment of Church lands:
- John persisted in resistance in a more HOSTILE manner...plundered it on a large scale.
- The Cistercians suffered most out of the religious houses and were so broken that many houses had to disperse and the monks fled to other houses.
- By 1213 John controlled 7 bishoprics and over 12 abbeys, receiving all their revenue
- Huscroft claims John received £66,000 from the Church throughout this period.
bishops fled: only one bishop left in England; Peter des Roches of Winchester
Rebellions:
- In 1212 a revolt of the Welsh broke out.
- 1212 rumour of Phillp Augustus planning invasion
Many dangerous events arose-John realised he needed to heal the breach.
CONSEQUENCES OF EXCOMMUNICATION-john submits
John's submittence
- In May 1213 John agreed to accept papal demands and accept Langton as archbishop.
- 15 May 1213 John resigned England and Ireland to Innocent III and received them back as papal fiefs under the bond of fealty and homage in return for an annual tax (£666)
- John’s actions bound England to the Roman church for more than 150 years.-LONG TERM
RESPONSE:
- No overt opposition at the time in which he made the choices
- Modern Scholars- Cheney a ‘diplomatic stroke of genius’ Painter calling it a ‘brilliant manoeuvre’
CONCLUSION
- Dispute between John and Inncoent had brought more serious consequence England had ever enountered
- Why? -Personality/lack of compromise
JOHN GAINED FROM HIS SUBMISSION TO THE CHURCH:
- Inncoent repealed MAGNA CARTER in 1215
- Innocent became a friend and protector of John at the time he needed it most-Phillip Augustus threats
- Helped pave the way for Johns invasion 1214
- 'ultimatly the survival of his dynasty'
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